Jason Vale's Podcast
Jason Vale's Podcast
Getting The Juice With: Chris Baber
It’s not all about the juice in this latest episode as Jason chews the fat with none other than up-and-coming TV chef and lover of food - Chris Baber!
Chris – winner of BBC1 series Yes Chef and M&S food trendsetter – is already taking Instagram by storm with his uplifting and easy to watch cooking videos.
Passionate about inspiring people through simple, home-cooked food and an all-around good egg – this is yet another engaging episode for your listening pleasure.
If you’re looking for a podcast that is politics and religion free and one that focuses on inspiration, a bit of good old-fashioned banter and plenty of laughs - then this could be for you!
It's the Jason Vale Podcast, everybody. Thank you very much for joining us. Listen, thanks for your company wherever you are in the world now. So many people listen to these podcasts, so thank you very much. Whatever it is that you're doing, you might be on a run, I don't know you could be down the gym, you could be on a train, plane, automobile or you could be in the kitchen rustling up something lovely, which is a beautiful segue introducing my next guest. My next guest is a professional chef, an ex-model, which is why I'm always glad of course sometimes when I don't have video on these podcasts. He's the face of M&S food, he's a social media cooking sensation the best way I would describe him. His now infamous Cook Along with Chris Instagram series has been seen by tens of thousands of people, he has a very large celebrity following particularly with that series and we'll get on to that as we do the podcast. He's what I would describe the new kid on the cooking block and he is the most famous Baber after Asa, of course. I can only be talking about the one and only... it's Chris Baber everybody! Come on, let's get involved Chris, how's that for an intro my man?
Chris Baber:Wow quite blown away with that to be honest, Jason. Unbelievable.
Jason Vale:Listen Asa, so I was looking today. So what we normally do, is like my first ever guest on my podcast was lovely Lorraine Kelly of the Lorraine show.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:And of course one was very easy, the second most famous Lorraine after quiche, right? Very apt for this cooking podcast. So we normally have the second most famous whatever it is after this person. Now with Baber of course, you know as I was looking this morning, I was thinking I can't think of another famous Baber. Anywhere! And then I thought well, I'll Google it because that's always what people do. I've noticed that people don't Yahoo it or they don't Bing it. It looks like Yahoo and Bing didn't get the old
Chris Baber:They might Ask Jeeves though.
Jason Vale:[Laughs] God, I didn't think you were even old enough to remember Jeeves. But yeah, poor old Jeeves.
Chris Baber:I wonder what he's up to nowadays.
Jason Vale:What is Jeeves up to? I mean he'd be canceled now anyway. He'd probably be I don't know sexist or something, I don't know. He'd be canceled. He wouldn't be allowed, Jeeves, now.
Chris Baber:No, he wouldn't.
Jason Vale:But then I looked... apparently Asa I'm gonna give you, A-S-A, Asa Baber. And there's not a lot of information about this person. All it says is they are the most famous Baber- well, I think- I think Asa, somebody is about to take your mantel. And that would be Chris Baber. Now look there'll be some people stuck in a... I don't know where they'd be stuck but, that might not of heard of you or come across your work. So just... I mean, you're a professional chef, ex-model. I know you was in a show in 2016 called Yes Chef and- and you won that.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:And that was a BBC show as well. How does one go from being a professional model and then go,"Well, I think I'll be a chef." Or was it always you had the passions for both or you- or you didn't have a passion for modeling. I don't know, what is it?
Chris Baber:Okay. Well first of all what an intro. Asa Baber, I need to check this guy out. I'm gonna Ask Jeeves about him. How did I go from that to that? Well, food was always the passion from growing up. I can't remember like not getting in from school, just cooking dinner for my parents and loving the process. And also putting a smile on people's faces. I think, you make people happy with food, that's what makes you enjoy it. And then the whole modelling thing, you know I didn't go to uni, I didn't go travelling I was working in jobs that I didn't really enjoy I had no passion for. Cooking was obviously always a passion and a hobby and then I got pulled into modelling, friend of mine, doing pretty well with it."Chris you can make a few quid. Come and do this". And I was doing it few years or whatever and then you know what? I used to text pictures of food to my friends, like just send texts and my friends are like,"You should get on Instagram. I'm sick of getting texts, show people how to do it." I thought, "I'm not really into this social media thing but hey-ho I'll give it a go anyway." Then 2016, started just literally taking pictures of me dinner every night. Posting it online on Instagram, and then a few months later some guy messaged me. I thought it was a joke."So now I'm researching for a show called Yes Chef on BBC. you wanna do it?" I said, "Well, yeah, why not?" And then went and did this show, like sort of long story short, there was a Michelin starred chef called Atul Kochhar who was the judge on the day. End up winning the show. With him it was like a daytime version of, MasterChef and then after the show they went"Chris, I know you're a home cook and you use social media, but seriously, you CAN cook. If you want a job, move to London, you come work at my Michelin star restaurant." Two weeks later, packed my bag, left Northumberland and moved down to London and that is really it. That's the story.
Jason Vale:Wow.
Chris Baber:Never looked back since. But- and do you know what? I'd never taken a risk in my life. Like I said, hadn't been to uni, hadn't been traveling. I was 25 at the time, still living with my parents. And I thought "Do you know what? I've just got to go for it," And Atul ... funnily enough, on the application for this TV show, I had to fill in, it said"Who's your favorite chef?" I'd written Atul Kochhar. And then, you had to create like a signature dish on the day and I created this pan fried sea bass with a coconut curry, based on one of his recipes from one of his books. So I turn up, I didn't know he was gonna be there, got all these ingredients laid out in front of me and he walks down to the table, looks at the ingredients, and he's like"Chris, I'm pretty confident in what you're gonna cook today." And just looked, and I'm thinking "My god, this could go one of two ways here. He knows I'm cooking one of his dishes..." Either way, I was like, shaking like a leaf carrying this plate of food up to him. And I remember, I put it on the table, he took a mouthful. He didn't say anything for about 10 seconds and he just went,"You've absolutely nailed it." And those words still give me goosebumps. That was the moment where you go from getting recognition from friends and family to a Michelin star chef saying "You can cook." Then that's what really gave me the belief to think "Do you know what? I should be doing something with my passion."
Jason Vale:Well that's a sliding door moment. That is what I call a sliding door moment. And that is why those words will inevitably with you for the rest of your life and indeed in many years to come when you write your autobiography.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:Um, That is interesting because when I was 25, I left London for the first time. I didn't go to uni, I didn't do any of that stuff either. I left London to go to Birmingham, weirdly, to run a stop smoking clinic. And I was way out of my depth. But it was a massive risk, and in the same way that you were 25 went down to London. Now how long were you down there for, because you've returned, presumably to... oh where's your hometown?
Chris Baber:My hometown's Northumberland. You know, I'm still in London. So-
Jason Vale:Okay.
Chris Baber:Yeah, I went to work in the restaurant which was amazing, I was there six months. This is when I really realized what my true passion is. It's not just food, but it's inspiring people to cook. I was learning an incredible amount in a fine dining restaurant in Mayfair. Incredible food, amazing experience, elevated my skills. But what I missed is that feedback from Instagram where I'd post one of my own recipes and a family would message and say "Chris, cooked that with the kids, they ate all the veg, it was delicious, we're having the leftovers for lunch." That is where I get my kicks rather than serving fine dining food in a restaurant, which I've got a lot of respect for, but I realized that isn't for me. I'm all about educating people.
Jason Vale:Yeah, and you do, and you also impact. we had a conversation not that long ago, I happened to be in Portugal at the time when we did, and I just remember coming across your platform. And I come across quite a few people's platforms and they tend to be a- a it's an awful thing to say, but there's a great deal of them and I'm sure that you would agree with this, they aren't very genuine. What they're doing it for, their passion is to become known and famous rather than what they're about. Like my passion was always about juicing, it was always about changing lives, and it remains that way even today. And I was watching this Cook Along with Chris series, and by the way anybody listening now they're all on his Instagram, right?
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:All the links will be up there as well, but you just go back. They- they're timeless as well. And it's wonderful because during the whole lockdowns and everything else, I don't know when people will be listening to this because it will be timeless anyway but, we're recording it pretty much as we're about to come out of the third lockdown in the UK. And of course, a service that you've been providing which it is because it's free for everybody. I mean you think about this is nobody's paying for any of this, and you're buying all the ingredients, you're making all the recipes, you're running around like crazy because you're doing a million things, you're being called upon by god knows how many people. And you can only do that really if you have a genuine passion for what you're doing, and you're trying to get to more people. And I've noticed, you have... like I saw one that you're cooking along with Paddy McGuiness-
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:And I was like... this is was like Jamie Oliver on steroids back in the day. It's like, where did this guy come from? And, like I said, I'm a Northern... well, I don't sound Northern, but all my family from Yorkshire. Aye Booth- Boothtown. And and there's something... I don't know, there's something about up there it's just that genuineness. Again I keep saying it, but you are one of the very few genuine humans out there that are doing what they're doing which is why before I was coming on today to record this, I went " God, if there were shares in Chris Baber, I'd buy them."
Chris Baber:[Laughs].
Jason Vale:I said,"Because this guy's gonna be frickin huge." You're big enough already, but you're gonna be frickin huge. And rightly so.. And not because you wanna be huge. So how did Paddy McGuiness... how did these celebs come about?
Chris Baber:Yeah, so I mean, the cook alongs, I did two series. One of them was actually right in the middle of lockdown. I thought "How can I help families out there?" And that was just me, on my own, easy recipes, families could cook with their kids or get the kids cooking and I'd do it three nights a week. And do you know what? It gave me a lot of structure, living on my own doing that, and, that was really good fun and it was just the sort of food you want to eat for dinner. That's how I describe my food. Bangers and mash, easy curries, the sort of food we crave. And the most heartwarming thing about that was getting messages from the families. Picture a young lad, stood on a stool with his dad saying "Oh, the lads cooked this tonight. It's the first time they've ever cooked anything together. We're gonna make that every week." And to think, I've inspired people to start cooking and even their first meal with me. It's absolutely... well, like I said, heartwarming. And then on the other side of the cook along, I started a bit of a celeb series. Again, I think that was... I'm losing track of which lockdown was which.
Jason Vale:[Laughs].
Chris Baber:But I'm thinking-
Jason Vale:There's been so many of the damn things.
Chris Baber:Yeah, and this one again, I mean it's teaching them to cook, eat food at home. A lot of them like Paddy, I'd met him doing jobs with M&S. Who else have I had on? Joe Donner, Rylan, Tom Daley Vick Hope, Jenni Falconer. There's loads and, a lot of them I've met maybe once or twice, we keep in touch. Some of them I'm quite close with anyway. And just say "Look, let's have a bit of fun. Is there anything you'd like to learn to cook, that you've maybe eaten in a takeaway?" We called it the Baber Flavours Takeaway. Or anything-
Jason Vale:Well, you can't just skip by that. The Baber Flavour... I did see a hashtag called Baber Flavour, I did see that
Chris Baber:that. Yeah, that's the hashtag I've gone with. Well, what rhymes with Baber? There's not many famous Babers, nothing much rhymes with it either so I thought... does flavour rhyme? Kind of. Well, we'll roll with it.
Jason Vale:Yeah it does. Go with it. Baber Flavour. I like it. Anyway, so go on, I interjected.
Chris Baber:Yeah. So- so the celeb one, I mean that was just really good fun. To just literally go on there. I'd send them the list of ingredients, we'd log on, have like an hour cooking along together and at the end, they've ended up with this dish in front of them. They'd eat it and go"Do you know what? That was really easy and delicious." And I think, that just sums me up. It's food for anyone. It doesn't matter who you are, it's real food for real people. And these celebs, they're all normal people at the end of
the day [crosstalk 00:12:36]
Jason Vale:By the way, Chris, that's a good name for a book, that.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:Real Food, Real People', Chris Baber. I see it already.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:I think-
Chris Baber:It- but doesn't... that sort of sums it up. Real people living real lives, I think. Keep it simple. Everything you can buy from the supermarket. But yeah, the celeb thing, a lot, a lot of fun. I mean the one with Paddy, god, you can watch them back on my Instagram. At the time I'd been probably in the flat on my own for about eight weeks or whatever in lockdown. And it was the most I'd laughed in- in, not just lockdown but I think for a couple of years.
Jason Vale:Yeah.
Chris Baber:He was literally- he was rinsing me. But he's the nicest guy, you know? And uh, we made this old-fashioned cheese and onion pie. He said, "Oh it's what I used to eat growing up."
Jason Vale:I saw it, no I saw it, I watched it. I thought it was freakin hilarious.
Chris Baber:a busy day had a load of builders turn up at the house, so I'm standing there ready to cook. And either way he rang me up sorry I still wanna jump on." And yeah it was fantastic. But they'd been really- really fun. And I put that series on pause at the minute just because we're coming out of lockdown, the nights are getting lighter, maybe I'll resume it later in the year. Or it could even be a good TV show or something couldn't it?
Jason Vale:I think it'd be really good, yeah. And the thing is that some people listening will go,"Oh well, what does it matter if a celebrity is cooking, because they're just humans that do another job?" I think we can't underestimate the power of the public eye influence. And people talk about that negatively sometimes, but I think it's an incredibly positive thing, especially when it comes to something like this. Now, what lockdown and everything else has taught most people is that taking care of what they put into their body is of paramount importance, Chris. Not slightly okay, not that we're all you know, indestructible. We need a very strong defense system. Now what I... again love about what you do... everything that I've seen anyway I'm wrong along the way, but everything I've seen you do is all about fresh ingredients.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:It's I call low HI food. Don't look it up, I made it up, but it's called low HI food. Low human intervention. So people say oh, should I be a vegetarian, a vegan? I said "Look, I'm not advocating any of that stuff. What you should look for is low human intervention food." So how much has a human interfered with my food? take a Chicken Kiev for example. You can make a very healthy Chicken Kiev. You also know that you can get a Chicken Kiev in a packet that has never seen Russia or a chicken for that matter.[Laughs] So- so yours is about, like you said, it's normal meals, but anybody... c-chefs have tried it in the past, but you make it so anybody can freakin do it. Anybody.
Chris Baber:Well it think... the thing that summed it up was when I had kids cooking along. I've always said the food's easy, but when you've got thousands of kids around the country cooking these recipes, it's easy enough for a child to do. The way I look at it, if my food is easy enough for a complete novice, but the flavor of it will satisfy someone who's really into food.
Jason Vale:Didn't you just break a record of some kind? Didn't I read-
Chris Baber:Oh yeah, I've I forgot about that. I broke the world record
Jason Vale:Yeah, I break world records all the time and I just forget.
Chris Baber:Do you know... it was a long day that. I'd just landed, we were filming in Jersey, doing some Jersey Royal stuff. I'm massive on British seasonal ingredients. And then we got back and I went to M&S and we planned this world record attempt, so I think we got the world record for the world's largest live cook along. So that was pretty fun.
Jason Vale:That's- that's a great accolade isn't it? The biggest cook along. And like you said, when you see a family cooking together... and one of the things you said earlier on in the podcast, it's just one of those heartwarming dishes right? but it's also heartwarming stories. You can glaze over I suppose, a father cooking with his son for the first time.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:But, unless you had... Unless you had decided to do this Cook Along with Chris and put all that work and effort and everything into it that, you're not getting paid for at all, and then you put all that thing into it and then because of that a father and son cook along for the first time together, which is a monumental bonding experience and then it will teach the kid go "Oh hang on, maybe there's something in this cooking from scratch. Maybe not everything comes from a packet." How passionate are you in terms of takeaway foods, Compared to home cooking? Is there a time where you would think "Well, actually the odd takeout here and there is okay? What's the kind of ratio you would say to people to try and aim for?
Chris Baber:Yeah, I think it's... I mean everyone's entitled to their own opinion on that, but for me, everything in moderation. You know I think if I'm eating fresh, home cooked food six days a week, if you want to go and treat yourself if it's a takeaway, or obviously I love an evening out, I've a lot of friends with lovely restaurants I think it's just about getting the balance right, isn't it? And also thinking about about how much activity you're doing to go alongside it. But, there's nothing wrong, for me anyway, to have a takeaway. I- I really don't see a problem with it
Jason Vale:I hear that. I don't see a problem either with it. In all my books I say let common sense prevail.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:People think that I live on nothing but juice and advocate all of that. I don't, I always say, "You don't want to spend your one and only life trying to extend your life, only to realise you missed your life in the process."
Chris Baber:Exactly and do you know what? One thing I always say is "Food is a joy." Like, it really is, it's one of the joys in life. And it's probably just similar to what you're saying if you spend your life focusing too much on eating the good stuff but you're missing out on what this joyful thing is. I mean, if you wanna go and have a burger with your friends, it's not just about the burger but it's about sitting around the table having a good time together. And some people I think are so concerned, "I can't eat that, I can't eat that." I think you've got to have a healthy relationship with food and eating a bit of what you fancy does you good, in my opinion.
Jason Vale:Well, I I think that's the case and I think the challenge is a healthy relationship with food. And it all depends, because of course, some big food obviously designed themselves with refined fats salt and sugar to such an extent that they want to hit what's called a 'bliss point', which means that actually it ceases to be the person's choice if they consume a huge amount of it. However I'm a big fan of what you do most of the time determines your health.
Chris Baber:Exactly.
Jason Vale:What you do most of the time determines your health. And we were designed, I hate to admit this now, but, for seven years I was not only a vegan, but I was obsessed human, right? So I was- I was wheat free, dairy free, sugar free, gluten free, friends free, personality free. And that- and that is what it [laughs] unfortunately...
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:Is what tends to happen. I always cited the bonobo chimpanzee, which I just like that word. It was 99.99% genetically the same as a human, and they only eat berries and green leaves and so on, and that was my kind of evidence. But, of course, that other 1% is a huge deal. Because the other 1% as you just mentioned there, yeah but bonobo chimpanzee's don't go out for dinner, they don't cook along with their dad, they don't play chess, they don't have a dinner party. Then once I came out of that seven years, and I think I was meant to go through that journey for whatever reason, but, I did. and realized that actually, like having a dessert, as another example, with your partner, for arguments sake, you get two spoons and it might be a homemade profiterole or whatever it is, that's the human element to that. That isn't about "Oh let's go and have some sugar together." That's not what you're consciously saying. I always say to people after a juice plan or whatever the case is."Look, do whatever you want to do afterwards, it's your life. Design whatever you want to do." you've got a real weight issue, you keep going backwards and forwards I always think that, don't gain weight cheaply. What I mean by that is this is, look, you know, you go out for dinner, you go... if it's with friends, and you're all having a great time and you're- rich tapestry of life, and you gain a little bit of weight because of that, and you happen to have a holiday for a couple of weeks, whatever. Just clean up, no big deal. You haven't gained weight cheaply. But I would say if you're sitting indoors, doing absolutely nothing, eating nothing but crisps and drinking cans of soda and all that, you've gained weight cheaply. There's got to be a benefit of some kind [laughs]. At least you know having a good time with friends.
Chris Baber:Yeah. I really like that way to look at it. It's a really good one. It just makes you think, doesn't it? And think twice about how are you potentially gaining this weight, are you out having a good time on holiday or are you sat at home eating crisps? I think that's a fantastic way. Jason Vale: Just Yeah. If you're gonna, at least have a trade-off is what I think [laughs]. Yeah, exactly. At least some sort of reward at the end of it.
Jason Vale:Now, there's so many Instagram... I mean it's funny isn't it, because Instagram, god, it took me ages to even get on it. I didn't... I didn't believe in it, I'm of the wrong generation, clearly. But it was just like well, what's that new thing [laughs] and I'd go on Instagram. But of course it's a great platform. But it's equally another platform that... do you find, and does it frustrate you... I don't know if it does or doesn't, that when you see food influencers, let's just say that, for argument's sake. When you see, I don't know how- how to say that without getting myself in trouble, but they're often they're... I've got to be really careful [laughs].
Chris Baber:Go on,[laughs], go for it.
Jason Vale:sometimes all of a sudden they're expert chefs. And they're not, they're clearly not. They've never been into a kitchen, never trained to be a chef, never done this. And then all of a sudden they're going "This is how..." Does it frustrate you sometimes that actually they're making out that either they're chefs or whatever. And I know that you're too polite to even say anything, but if you had an honest head on,
Chris Baber:[Laughs]. Yeah, I think... well, do you know what? I think the word"influencers" a big one. I think for me I always thought of myself as a chef with an influence. I didn't join Instagram to become an influencer. I don't think that word was really a thing when I first joined.
Jason Vale:Where did that come from?
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:That's a very good point, Chris. Because people said... oh, I remember asking somebody what- what they did. I was on the beach and they went, "I'm an influencer". And I remember going "What the hell have you just said?"
Chris Baber:Yeah, what you work in psychology or something? What's your job, I don't know. It's I think everything I do comes because I care about it and as long as I focus on what I'm bothered about, if someone with millions of followers wants to do a cookbook and has all the recipes written for them, then, let them go ahead and do it. But you know what? I love what I do so much, I- try- try not to pay much attention to it.
Jason Vale:No. I wouldn't either.
Chris Baber:And also, I'm very selective with who I follow. So anything like that, I don't tend to be following it, because I'm not interested,
Jason Vale:No, there is that. But it tends to pop up these days anyway.
Chris Baber:The odd thing does pop up and I think, "God, definitely wouldn't want to be eating that, that's horrific."
Jason Vale:I love getting into food. I mean, and I like the fact that you're on my podcast, because people again for whatever reason, maybe because I've done it for 20 years, are convinced that I only drink juice.[Laughs].
Chris Baber:Yeah [laughs].
Jason Vale:Which nothing could be further from the truth. But I'm an abysmal chef, I'll be honest with you.
Chris Baber:Okay.
Jason Vale:Like I've written one cookbook when I say that, it was more my partner, Kate really. It was me, Kate and a couple of others in my house, and we just put it together, right? We just- we decided to self-publish it, this, that and the other, but that's another story. But anyway, but we did that. And I love it, it's called Super Fast Food. I love the book and everything else. However, there is a however. People say "Are you gonna write another one?" Not in a million years, right? And I'll tell you why. I don't think people appreciate... the amount... like your cook along series, the amount of work that, that would have taken you. I- there's no way that people would possibly have an inkling from the shot- shopping, finding the ingredients as well. Because you might say"I have a recipe." And they go oh freak they haven't got it there, and then you start hunting around god knows how many different shops. And during lockdown, that must have been a nightmare, as well, because it's not easy to go shopping or to get a delivery slot.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:Or anything else. And I was looking at your stuff, and I thought do you know what? And this is why I wanted you on my podcast. Because I thought... you really are one of the very few chefs, I think,"I can learn from him." Now I don't normally think, I'm quite like"Yeah, I can to that." But I think- I can learn... because I tend to be standing in the kitchen. I'm a stand in the kitchen guy.
Chris Baber:Yeah?
Jason Vale:That stands in the kitchen with a wholemeal pitta bread, stuck it in the oven quickly, wait for it to get a little bit warm, shove a load of avocado, load of salad in there, maybe a little bit of hot salmon. Boom, shove that in, bit of pesto-
Chris Baber:Yeah, sounds all right, that I could fancy that now Jason.
Jason Vale:Yeah, it's really quite nice, but I mean it's not really chef-ing its- it's-
Chris Baber:No.
Jason Vale:It's not even cooking, it's nothing. It's throwing ingredients together, which is what I think I do.
Chris Baber:Yeah?
Jason Vale:I throw- like- like people will go "Oh, you've made a lovely salad." It's like oh, come- really? It's not- that's not, I mean [laughs]. You get away with murder because you're like, you're putting together a salad. That's not rocket science. It's mind you, having said that, I've been some abysmal salads, so I'll take that back a little bit actually.
Chris Baber:[Laughs].
Jason Vale:Some- some of them are atro- you think,"Really, that's not a salad."
Chris Baber:Are these some of these dodgy people you're following on Instagram?
Jason Vale:They're the ones [laughs].
Chris Baber:Some of these influencers?
Jason Vale:Some of these influencers are going... do you know an avocado, by the way, don't know if you're aware of this... an avocado's the most photographed image on Instagram in the world. Do you know?
Chris Baber:God, it's amazing. I mean, avocados barely made it up into Northumberland where I'm from.
Jason Vale:[Laughs]. The further north you get, it is a funny thing. There is a def- you are quite right. In fact I don't know if you've heard of some- I- I lived in Boothtown in Halifax for a year
Chris Baber:Yeah?
Jason Vale:With my Auntie Hilda and Uncle George and I went to school there as well. And she introduced me you would have heard of it, I'm guessing, but explain what it is to our listeners, if they don't... something called "dripping".
Chris Baber:Dripping? Yeah drippings basically just beef fat.
Jason Vale:Correct.
Chris Baber:I mean, I love it, so if I'm doing roast potatoes, I'll do it in dripping and, it's a very Yorkshire thing. So if you go... god, I'm excited. This is how much I love food. Dripping, in like Yorkshire and stuff if you go to the fish and chip shop, they will do everything in beef dripping. So you get like a unique flavor around the chips and the fish, because it's not oil, it's beef dripping.
Jason Vale:When I was a kid, it was always fish and chip Friday up north.
Chris Baber:Yep.
Jason Vale:And we'd make a special trip to go Harry Ramsden, lad aye.
Chris Baber:Yeah so aye lad, even the vegans can't have chips in there, can they? Because they're done in beef fat.
Jason Vale:No and I actually, I think it was one of the big chains. Years ago, again, they were cooking them in some kind of beef fat or something at the time, and I think that they yeah, a few people that were vegan just went "Well, that's crazy." But she introduced me to dripping, I was like "What is that?" So I- I was about seven or eight, come up from London because we got kicked out in the streets, long involved story, world's smallest violin. But, anyway, my Auntie Hilda was taking care of me and I'm there and she goes "Oh aye, , I tell you what you need inside you lad, a bit of dripping and a tea cake." And I was like "What has she just said? I have no idea what you've even just said." So I thought it was a cup of tea and a cake is what I thought I was gonna have.
Chris Baber:[Laughs] yeah.
Jason Vale:And then, it can only be described as a very large, wide bap, right? This thing was almost the size of my head.
Chris Baber:I bet.
Jason Vale:And then she went, " right, let's put a bit of dripping on that." I said what's that... so obviously it was the beef fat, like you said, from the day before. But it was swimming around in this pan that had been left out, it's like black. Not all of it was black, just the edges and all that kind of stuff. She put it, lacquered it on like fat on white bread, right? Tons of salt. And even when I was eight, I thought, even as an intuitive thing thinking, that's wrong. I took a bite of it, it was, as you've said, and I know it's awful, I'm sorry for my usual listeners listening in if you're vegan or whatever. It was one of the nicest things I've ever had in my life.
Chris Baber:But then think about the HI. Where was the human intervention? That was fat that came out of a lovely piece of beef that was probably roasted on a Sunday. It's natural food, isn't it?
Jason Vale:Now, I hear that, but we could get into such a big debate. Because some people... I mean, bear in mind, I spoke at several raw food events, there are some people who say that natural food for example, they say "Well, if you cook it, it's not natural." Don't get me started on that, because we could be here forever [laughs].
Chris Baber:But either way, it tasted good, I bet it did.
Jason Vale:Oh, my god. It was one of those... and it was one of the hardest things really for me to stop eating.[Laughs] And- and here's the weird thing that some of my listeners know and some don't, but, I went on... my Uncle owns a butcher shop-
Chris Baber:Okay.
Jason Vale:And I ended up being a butcher. I don't know if you know that [laughs].
Chris Baber:No I didn't know. Fantastic.
Jason Vale:I was a butcher. So my uncle was a really good cook, it goes along with that, A very few normal- normal butchers. Not these commercial butchers. He has one shop, everybody knows him. He knows how to cook everything and all that kind of stuff. And he- he's what I'd call a really good cook. I mean, he could have probably been a chef of some kind, but- but he was a cook. Yeah he's very passionate. So when I went seven years vegan, can you imagine I went down like a lead balloon with him.
Chris Baber:Oh, I bet.
Jason Vale:You- can you imagine, "What Bloody hell's happened to thee, lad?"
Chris Baber:Yeah [laughs].
Jason Vale:"What has happened to thee? You're withering away." and it's like "No, I'm not, I'm still all right, I'm still okay, I know you don't have a book or anything like that, because people who are listening are "Well, I just want to go and grab his book." At some point, there's no question, you must be thinking about that. because you don't get a book out, I- I'll create the book for you.[laughs].
Chris Baber:Oh, believe me there will be a book out. I think it- all I can say is stay tuned. It's something I want to get absolutely perfect. Over the past few years I've been offered little book deals or whatnot here or there, but I think it's not right or whatever. I need to get it absolutely perfect. I love what I do and I'm in it for the long haul, so I can say something will come. Stay tuned and it will be there.
Jason Vale:Because I'm more of a visual person, Chris, and I'm big into apps and I have been for what, 12 years? I think my first app came out 12 years ago. So I was kind of ahead of the curve on that back then.
Chris Baber:Okay.
Jason Vale:But, I'd love to see an app from you, I really would. It's one of those yeah, that would work really well, with different sections [laughs] I'm trying to- I'm trying to sell you your own app here.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:But, do you know what I mean? Like, one of my favorite books from Jamie was Super Food, oddly.
Chris Baber:Love it.
Jason Vale:Well, not oddly, but it was one of- I think it was one of his best books. It's not one that is often talked about.
Chris Baber:No.
Jason Vale:Greatly but I loved it. I mean I loved it because of course, I'm very much into keeping up with your health and everything else.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:And he was the sharpest he as ever looked while he was writing that book.
Chris Baber:Do you know what? He was, it was a good series that went with that on the TV wasn't it? And he was meeting people around the world from different cultures-
Jason Vale:Yep.
Chris Baber:And finding out why is it that you live until 88 is the average age? Oh it's because you're eating a lot of this in your diet. I thought it was fascinating and he did look fantastic when he did that.
Jason Vale:I mean, talking about looking fantastic, those who haven't seen Chris Baber yet well if you're of a weak disposition, don't. Because he's just... I saw there's this picture of you on a running track, it's like what are you 2% body fat at that point? I mean like-
Chris Baber:Oh at that point-
Jason Vale:It must have been 5%, 5% body fat it looked like. That's what it...
Chris Baber:At that point, I was competing. I used to run when I was late teens early 20's, and then I tore my patella tendon so I had to stop. So I used to compete and, do you know what? I think blessing in disguise. I used to be so obsessed with training six, seven days a week, every night on the track. When I stopped competing, I went from running so much to doing nothing. How can I use this time that I would be training to do something productive and make myself feel good? And that's when I started taking pictures and sharing and writing my recipes. Because I had to replace that kick that I got from- from fitness to- to something else
Jason Vale:What was your race, Chris? What was your race, by the way, on the track?
Chris Baber:800 meters.
Jason Vale:Because I'm building a- what will be Europe's healthiest playground down in the Algarve. And we're putting a running track in. I love a running track so much. That I'm putting one in.
Chris Baber:I need to come down when that's ready.
Jason Vale:Oh listen, well hopefully you'll be at the opening, my man. It'd be really good. I mean we've got musicians, like a mini concert, we've got this, we'll have-
Chris Baber:Oh, nice.
Jason Vale:Chefs and all kinds of stuff. So it should be a great- great gig. And by the way if you're if you're listening, if you've been to any of my retreats, your name will go into a hat and you could be at the opening, just a little Create Magic thing. But yeah, we're gonna have the mini-Olympics every week or something like that. It's gonna be great. We've got a shot put, we got high jump.
Chris Baber:Oh, wow.
Jason Vale:Oh, it's gonna be a bit of a giggle down there as well.
Chris Baber:When does that open?
Jason Vale:Ha [ laughs] September the 3rd, 2022, and that's even if it's not finished and I'm there on my knees, making the juice, out in the open, by myself. To say it's been a challenge is an understatement. But anyway, reverting back, it's your podcast my man. So reverting back to the app, right? So, I'm very serious. or your book. It'd be great to have these little sections where you've got you know, for arguments sake a- a... because you can make vegan food so sharp-
Chris Baber:Do you know what? Vegan food it- I... so many recipes I write, I always jump in at this point. There's recipes I do and I haven't written it because it's vegan. I almost make it and go, oh do you know what? That's vegan. Like, and I worked in a Michelin star Indian restaurant and because of religious reasons in India there's a lot of people that don't eat dairy or meat. So a lot of the food just happens to be vegan. It wasn't written as a trend to be vegan, but you make the most delicious potato and cauliflower or chickpea curry. It's vegan, you don't even think about it.
Jason Vale:Yep. Because a lot of the people that... especially me, I'm not an"-arian" of any kind anymore. So I wouldn't call myself a vegan, a vegetarian I suppose if there's any title, Chris, then a pescatarian.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:But the reason I got rid of titles is because there's a rich tapestry of life out there. I don't want to be in Israel and go down to the Dead Sea and be in a Bedouin tent and somebody makes me something and I become this knobhead that I was for seven years ago, "Oh, no I'm sorry, I'm meat free, dairy free, sugar free..." do you know what I mean? Like your body can-
Chris Baber:I love that. That's such a great mantra, because I think... that, I mean, I don't want to offend anyone here, but, there's a lot of people that go "Oh, I'm dairy free, gluten free..." whatever. I think this is just my opinion, if you're not allergic to it, there's someone that is that would do anything to have a bit of dairy, or- or gluten and it would make them really ill if they did but they're craving it. And some people will just go, "Oh, do you know what? I'm not having that because I've seen it on Instagram or something."
Jason Vale:I agree. My take is this, that genuinely, again, I'm like you, everybody to their own. But I also feel that if you're doing something for other reasons than health, so let's just say you, for whatever reason you go,"No, I don't want any animal products for whatever..." and that's for you, an ethical thing even if it's... whatever factually correct or not, but just say that's how you feel, then, of course it's entirely your decision, it should be. What the issue I have sometimes with some vegetarians that happen to be significantly overweight and ill still, it's that they go "I don't understand it, I'm vegetarian". I have to point out to them that you're not a vegetarian, you're a carb-arian. You haven't eaten a vegetable for 10 years.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:And- and there are healthy meat eaters, and non-healthy meat eaters. There are healthy vegetarians and non- healthy vegetarians. And it's that education. And I think that when you cook something from scratch, I think that's the important thing, and the balance you have, I've seen on all- pretty much all your dishes, of vegetables versus some proteins or whatever the case is. But, like you said you do some we- look anybody that's listening now that thinks "Oh, well, actually he cooks everything, so I'm not really..." Look check out the vegetarian recipes, check out the vegan recipes that this boy can put together, man. I mean, I've called boy because you look about 18, sorry. I'm showing my age now.
Chris Baber:I was with a friend of mine the other day, and it was a bit embarrassing, I don't know who for, but, we're in the shop and my mate was buying some jeans and he went "Oh, your Dad's really stylish." And I went "Hang on a second... my dad?" I mean, I know we had masks on and stuff, but then I was kind of hoping my friend didn't hear it, he's a little bit older than me. But yeah, so I, I don't know what happened, I used to go out when I was 17, drinking pints and all sorts, not getting ID'd, doing whatever I want. And now, it seems like... maybe it's all this good food I'm cooking but, I'm looking youthful.
Jason Vale:Maybe it's because you've got a baby face. I mean it might... mind you, funny thing because I thought that would never change for me, but it does. I remember, like, I remember being in the States, and being 28 and them going, "You can't... and, where's your ID?" And stuff. And I- I had that baby face going on and it's like... When does that happen?"[Laughs] All I could say Chris is enjoy it, man.
Chris Baber:While it lasts.
Jason Vale:The good news is that every day I do wake up, and I think it's a great philosophy in life in general, ... if at any point you ever feel like you're getting old. I know it sounds weird, if you ever do get that feeling, not that you would for many years to come, but you just go "I'm younger today than I'm ever gonna be again in my life. What a great day today is."
Chris Baber:That's fantastic, that.
Jason Vale:Yeah, it is. And I also- I don't go along with the other one, which is "I'm older today than I've ever been." Because you can get depressed about that. So it depends on which way you [laughs].
Chris Baber:Well and it's all mindset. Everything in life's about your mindset, really, isn't it?
Jason Vale: [inaudible 00:40:36] my man, Listen I can't thank you enough for coming on. I know you're busy, you've got... you're doing tons of stuff over at M&S, you're so sought after and understandably at the moment. And it's one of those that it's I'm going to be trying to hunt you down in five years and you'll be so busy, they'll be like "There's no way you can get hold of Chris Baber." I'll be going through your agents, you'll be doing that, feel like one of those. But you- you bring, as corny as it sounds, but you bring something refreshing to the plate, Chris, you really do.
Chris Baber:Oh, thanks so much. I really appreciate it and the fact that you asked me to come on the podcast. Now, I said to you I was listening to this in the first lockdown it's like, whoah! These guests are amazing and I feel very privileged to be on here and you've said some really nice things to me on here, but just when we've spoke in between and for you to see how much I really do care about it. I think that- that means a lot to me because I really do. All I wanna do is show people how to cook food from scratch and have a bit of fun doing it as well, that's what it's all about.
Jason Vale:Yeah, well I said- I said that and that is the thing, when we spoke separately to this, this was ages ago before I even thought about having you on my podcast and I just wanted to say to you, because people think oh am I saying this because he's on my podcast, but you know I'm not. I said this to you privately when we first had some interaction. Just how rare it is to find somebody... I left you a couple of messages saying you're just genuine. Genuineness is very tricky these days to decipher, first of all, to find out who in the game actually genuinely wants to help people out there. And when you see somebody giving that amount of themselves, that amount of their free time, and money, to go and buy all these expensive ingredients and put them all together just so that... well, there's two things. I mean, I always say that"there's no such thing as a selfless good deed". That's from the Joey Tribbiani rule from Friends.
Chris Baber:Yeah.
Jason Vale:Because of course ultimately we- we get something from it. And all of us needed a purpose during lockdown. I mean I did Juice Along With Jase during lockdown. That- that's how it is because we gain something from it. But it's a win-win as corny as that expression is.
Chris Baber:Yeah, it is a win-win.
. Jason Vale:And- what's incredible, Chris, you knew about that father and dad because he told you. Can you imagine the thousands of people that you have influenced to cook that has a knock on effect. They then say to their friends, "Oh, I'm gonna cook." I mean, you know get a bunch of teenagers together, all cooking together, I don't think that's ever been done. You know that kind of stuff.
Chris Baber:No.
Jason Vale:It's like teenage cook along and boom. I know, there's so much still... you think everything's been done on the cookery front and it hasn't.
Chris Baber:Yeah, I think...
Jason Vale:There's so much more.
Chris Baber:Yeah, there is. I think for me it's just all about removing any barriers that people might have to cookery. Is it words that people don't understand, like 'saute'... well, actually just say it in normal words. Anything I can do to make it easier, to get people to cook. And I think for anyone that does want to start cooking from scratch, I always say it's a bit like that journey when you start going to the gym or training. The first few weeks or six weeks is hard, but the first time you see results, you say, look in the mirror, you've gained some muscle or lost some weight and you think "Do you know what? I like this." And then that's when it becomes addictive. And I tell you what, the first time you cook the first meal from scratch for yourself and you eat it, or your partner or your family and it puts a smile on their face and they're like "Wow, you know that is delicious." That is when you get that moment and you go, "Do you know what? That was really easy, tasted good, put a smile on everyone's face. I wanna do that again.
[crosstalk 00:45:31] and when you get into it, you keep going.
Jason Vale:I think you've inspired me. I'm not even saying this hyperbole. I think, as I'm listening, I'm thinking, do you know what? Let's get back into the cooking gym, and start working my cooking muscle again, like you said, and do it consistently so that your brain receives a reward for it, because then it will want to do it- will want to do it then, and then think, yeah, actually, it's quite therapeutic to actually chop up some vegetables, to do this and whatever." But you know, I think there'll be people listening now thinking "Do you know what I haven't cooked in ages, I want to cook easy- easy meals and layman's terms. I don't want this..." And the irony is, you're with M&S, so what we're talking about here is not just a normal chef, we're talking about a hand-reared, ex-model [ [inaudible
00:46:36] laughs]London chef.
Chris Baber:[Laughs] not just any chef.
Jason Vale:Not just any chef, yeah, it's been wonderful having you on. if... well, not if when I mean there's no question, when you produce a book, an app, or whatever it is, I'd love to have you back again, because I- what I'd like to do to go along with that if that happens, which it will at some point, a years time, whenever it is. I'll do a little cook along, one of your-
Chris Baber:100%, I'd love to do that and I'd like to come out and see you as soon as- soon as we're allowed.
Jason Vale:Yeah, that's the word you're looking for, allowed. Because we've all been naughty school kids and we got stay
Chris Baber:in. Yeah, we're locked up.
Jason Vale:[Laughs] Locked up for a crime, Chris, I can't remember committing. But that's another political thing that I won't even get into. Ladies and gentlemen it's the one, it's the only, check him out on Instagram, check him out everywhere. Go back over all the stuff that he's done. He is the new, like I said, cooking kid on the block. The way I'm looking at it, it's like talking to Jamie Oliver before he became The Naked Chef. This is like chatting to Jamie even just before then. This guy is gonna be huge, he's big enough already. He already holds a world record so many good things are opening up for this guy right now and rightly so. Themost genuine chef that I know - it's Chris Baber everybody, come on, let's have a round of applause.
Chris Baber:Oh, thank you.
Jason Vale:Thank you very much.
Chris Baber:Thank you.